1Gregory Galant

Great point Noah. We've generated a lot of business and press from people searching for "podcast advertising". Of course, to a degree SEO and PR form a virtuous cycle because good PR will lead to a lot of links, which will lead to a good Google rank. But perhaps PR folk should prioritize media outlets that link to the businesses they're writing about.

January 27, 2007

2Kevin Dugan

Noah: This is a great topic to discuss...especially considering your search results can be the "first moment of truth" for a consumer experiencing your brand. It's all the more urgent/relevant considering blogs + Google are such a potent mix.

After more than 15 years in public relations, I'll argue that SEO should be the benefit or end result of a good PR program. If you have passionate, well-informed people talking about your company and its products/services, they're getting interviews, they're blogging, they're speaking at conferences and more. The end result is your company winds up well-positioned in results.

This would serve as a starting point and a foundation on top of which you add a mix of SEO tactics including site optimization and keyword buys to get the best possible presence.

The danger in having PR people consider SEO too early in the process or in the improper context is that someone will want to use it to game the system. Ticker spam is a favorite/early example from the dot com days. We'd see thinly-veiled attempts at getting news releases picked up by filters by mentioning publicly traded companies in their release.

Again, I think SEO is important. But in an industry that is incorrectly characterized as being full of spin doctors and low-level tacticians, I would recommend framing SEO in the bigger picture of public relations and social media.

>>If you've got $1,000, is it better to spend it optimizing your website or pitching stories? Obviously there can't be a single answer to this, since it depends so much on the context and type of business, but it seems like a reasonable idea. I need to think some more about where in the life-cycle of a business this makes sense, though.

Which one will buy you more? SEO. If that's all you have to spend, focus on SEO. But I think the combination of public relations creating organic SEO and direct SEO is the answer. You're thoughts on the business-life cycle merit further exploration. If the company were just getting started, I would focus on building awareness through public relations.

Would be happy to discuss this in more detail.

January 28, 2007

3Marc

Hi Noah... Long time listener, first time caller (I've always wanted to say that) =) I think Kevin covered it well... totally no argument with anything he says. On a different tangent, I think the nature of SEO has dramatically changed in the past couple of years... particularly maybe in the past 12 months. A company looking to hire a PR company would be smart to drill them with questions about their up-to-date knowledge of the net because although we can make the assumption that everyone is keeping up and paying attention, really its not the case.

I know that now when I am dealing with media buying agencies for instance and they are planning out how they are going to spend a client's money for the year, some are on the ball and looking for fresh cool approaches and some are still giving out the old "keyword buy, tv, magazines, newspaper, billboards" speel. Rapid changes on the net are a lot to keep up with for anyone, almost like constant on-going re-training.

Not meaning to preach to the guru (because I know you're very knowlegable in this area) but the optimisation of a site for search engines is not really brain surgery anymore. It's well known that content is king especially with contextual use of keywords, and meta text and robot-friendliness is important. I think when you are talking about PR's role, you are talking about the "links in to the company site" part of the google-ranking equation, also extremely important... is that right?

I've been reading a bit about linkbaiting lately. This is something which I'd see as the role of a PR professional. I don't know if it will help but here are a few links:
What is Linkbait
An Introduction To Linkbait
2007 Guide To Linkbaiting: The Year Of Widgetbait?

I think (like anything) if someone views change as a threat then it's very threatening, or if they see it as an opportunity then it's very exciting. Rather than diminish the role of PR professionals, I think communication and the way it is handled is becoming more and more important. SEO is as important as it ever has been and there are new techniques (some only 6 months old) for optimising, so expert specialists are required more than ever.

I agree with Kevin that it is hard to divorce it from the bigger picture of public relations and social media.
B.L. Ochman's 12 Tenets of Social Media Marketing

On the question of where it's best to spend your $1000... tough call, really.

Good luck with it, let us know your thoughts when they've finished churning.

January 28, 2007

4Max Kalehoff

Hi Noah,

As you know, the digital trail you leave behind by participating in conversation as well as being part of good publicity is perhaps the most important dimension of SEO for PR. Realizing this, there's an opportunity for a new breed of hybrid PR people that are more subject-matter authorities, who are very visible (as opposed to behind-the-scenes publicity-optimizing flack handlers) and constantly create those search-friendly breadcrumbs. That's why it's also a very good idea for non-PR people to learn such skills of PR (anyone can practice it), and this model often manifests when non-PR execs start blogging, or become pseudo-celebrity experts in the niches, adored by the press. PR (among other things) falls under my watch at the company where I work, and I can vouch for a number of colleagues who have particularly good search mojo in key subject areas and frequently are the receivers of inbound press calls from journalists seeking expertise via Google. In fact, it happens all the time, and that's been the reason for dozens of my quotations in mainstream business publications over the past year. One key nuance is that this type of SEO-PR requires companies to be a little more accepting of individuality and independence. However, the company can still benefit massively.

Btw, I tackled the intersection of PR and search a few years ago. Check it out and let me know what you think: ">Can Search Help PR's Reputation?

Especially when practicing PR, your brand equity is the sum of your search results.

Cheers,
Max

January 29, 2007

5David Berkowitz

Noah, I've worked in both fields - PR and SEO, and even for a brief while did PR for a search marketing firm, and your questions are salient. SEO has changed a lot of industries, and PR is one of those that's been most affected. Namely, you have to be evaluating SEO benefits of some sort (if at the very least tracking hits on the first page of Google) for monitoring your campaign success. Most PR people who are up to speed on this are consciously including important keywords in press releases and optimizing those releases to at least a small degree.

PR and SEO firms do work together closely. Some PR firms are offering SEO services, while some search marketing firms specifically help with optimizing press releases (others do it on a more general scale). There's a ton of cooperation and competition between the two sectors.

As for the $1,000 question, if I had a thousand dollars (cue Barenaked Ladies), I'd be rich. Okay, definitely not in Manhattan. But if I had $1,000 to spend on SEO or PR, and I was paying specific attention to the PR value of it and that relationship, I'd optimize the press release section of my website so that my current and future releases are best primed for squeezing every last drop of Google juice.

January 29, 2007

6Noah Brier

Thanks for all the great comments. A few key points I took away and need to think more about:

1. The relationship between the two. What can well placed keywords and links in press releases do for your SEO? Currently these are incredibly under-utilized.
2. Good PR (and social media relations for that matter), can lead to incoming links which we all know are the ultimate SEO tool.
3. Need to make the distinction between shady SEO and the non-shady kind I'm thinking about.
4. SEO isn't as hard as it used to be. There are simple steps that everyone should be taking. It should just be the way a site is built (like including good keywords in titles).
5. PR people should be better schooled in SEO.
6. Blogging can be a great way to get both.

Thanks Gregory, Kevin, Marc, Max and David. It still tickles me that I can float an idea like this out there and get this kind of quality response. How did anyone do this stuff before blogs?

PS, the $1,000 question was pretty dumb. Sorry for including it.

January 29, 2007

7mikej

Sorry Im late on this one. I like your points Noah and everyone else. I have been using Google trends lately and checking what words are searched for around the client or industry Im working for or topic I surrounding that. Trends has a small rundown of the articles that ran in the press at that time (maybe last few years) and compare it to the word traffic.

Its a great way to see the momentum behind what you are looking at as people seek it out, previous to being active with PR or any other communications. I think you can look at it in terms of your press coverage, but also from a broader social perspective in terms of when the masses contain an interest in a topic and start to identify what might have driven that interest.

February 7, 2007